[Throne of Thunder] - Primordius (8)

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Templaar
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Re: [Throne of Thunder] - Primordius (8)

Post by Templaar » Thu May 16, 2013 9:52 am

To corroborate what is said above, the "good" and "bad" buffs are both magic. Any healer dispel will remove all of them.
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Re: [Throne of Thunder] - Primordius (8)

Post by Bravebeard » Thu May 16, 2013 10:00 am

I think I asked for dispel 3 times and got them within 10 sec. Worked well.

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Re: [Throne of Thunder] - Primordius (8)

Post by Rublupine » Thu May 16, 2013 10:25 am

But what was your criteria for asking to be dispelled?
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Re: [Throne of Thunder] - Primordius (8)

Post by Erian » Thu May 16, 2013 10:33 am

Rublupine wrote:I could use some more details on last nights attempts.

We shoul prioritise higher DPS players to be mutated earlier. This is not favouritism, its common sense. Not clear on logic in earlier posts about favouring Melee ?

No one should need to be dispelled. We should probably run a "no dispels" start to begin. This will get people in the mindset of avoiding the 6th pool. One or two rebuffs does not outweigh the 5 buffs. It's always better to accept a couple of rebuffs, wait for the buffs to drop off, then dispell. Dispelli g buffs should always be viewed as a terrible last resort. ;)

Who lead heals night? How was the raid dmg? How many healers shoul we plan for? I assume healers are not taking the fluid buff unless all DPS are mutated?
I've read suggestions that melee should get the mutations first as a priority.

Not really a problem to dispel on call. It does happen (following boss) that you step into a puddle by mistake, and it's a simple matter to collect the rebuffs by that stage.

Heals. 7H is ample. 6H I think is doable, but when we tried with 6H we found that Damoli didn't have the output because of graphics issues. 5.5 H is not enough yet. 8H was too many. In hindsight, it's not clear to me whether switching to undergeared mage (491, 70k dps) losing Erian (70k hps) was preferable to switching Caireann (30k dps, 75k hps) to shadow (?90k dps). Judging by Athinaa's numbers, maybe shadow would have been the better option.

Healers were only taking unused puddles as far as I could tell, if at all.
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Re: [Throne of Thunder] - Primordius (8)

Post by Fagan » Thu May 16, 2013 12:49 pm

Right.

Melee should (and did in theory) have priority on getting mutated first. The reasoning behind this, is that melee have to run about the place chasing them, losing dps. Also melee need to be in range of the Caustic Gas, to share the dmg. Ranged can stand an nuke them, only running about to pick up the mutation once melee are all on the boss. (And if they are clever and nuke the ones that are headed their way, they shouldn't need to move too much ;) ) If you prio any high dps ranged, then melee will spend more time running about like idiots rather than time nuking the boss. Ranged will get mutated pretty quick anyway.

Ranged/healers need to try and be a bit more aware of melee who have had to run out to get the buff. Many times I was fighting with both to pick up the buff. Each patch contains 3 charges, so if you see someone run in from the bosses direction, let them get their fill then take any that are left, rather than fighting to get the buff leaving melee to have to run off and find another patch.

We had 3-5 ranged on adds full time, this cut down the down time once mutation debuffs ran out and increased dps on the boss. Adds need targeting when they are furthest from the boss, so there is plenty of time to kill them before they get to the boss.

Absolutely no point nuking adds near the boss as they either won't be killed before they reach him, wasting dps, or in the worst case they die near him, spawn a purple pool and buff him. Single target the adds, the only point at which they could be AoE'ed is when they are on top of the boss (see point above).

Hero - Assign someone to pop it when most of the dps are mutated, but don't wait until every dps has it or the melee will run out of the buff before hero ends. I'd say when half the ranged have mutated, as the other half will be able to kill adds very fast then and pick up debuff quicker anyway.

Dispels - as stated they remove both the good and bad debuffs (they all appear on my UI as debuffs, not buffs at all). People should call for them if they have stacked a few bad debuffs from either the purple pools or the red pools once mutated. DBM give a good counter for good/bad stacks. Dispels will obviously remove the fully mutated buff, so the best way to deal with it is to call for a dispel once that drops off, before you regain the stacks. (If needed ofc). People were pretty good at avoiding the bad debuffs last night.

*Avoid ALL pools once transformed! No ranged should have an issue if awake, more difficult for melee depending on the tanks.

I wouldn't do any 'no dispel' runs, people were only calling for them when needed and that wasn't very often.

Tanking - the boss needs to be kited in a circle avoiding as many pools as possible and away from the slow moving purple pools. You don't want to move him too fast as you will catch up with the pools, just fast enough to keep the purple ones away. This will be made easier by kiting him around the edge of the room for a few reasons: 1. The adds opposite him will have much further to travel to reach him = more time for dps to kill them. 2. DPS won't have killed any adds near the edge, so there should be no red puddle for the melee to step in. 3. The adds the spawn near him won't matter, they won't be killed before they reach him so won't spawn pools and he will always absorb plenty of adds whereever you kite him, but on the edge should lessen the number.

If you note on the tankspot vid, the tanks only move him if there are purple pools are near, but just be aware of him casting any abilities, so allow for a few second where you can't move him at all.


And after that wall of text, we would have killed him anyway with a slightly better raid makeup (7% best shot). I would suggest 7H or 6H if they are all stable/no lagg issues/etc.

Did I miss anything? ;)
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Re: [Throne of Thunder] - Primordius (8)

Post by Alaedon » Thu May 16, 2013 3:03 pm

Rublupine wrote:Did the off-tank focus on killing fluids (they have a dmg buff on fluids after the swap mechanic and should focus on this).
I was killing fluids and getting the buffs to become mutated(i think vrug was doing the same) .. most of the time i was killing the adds that are going to the boss from front and getting my buff untill i get mutated it was my time to taunt off.

for boss kiting there was a problem at start.. at first try i wasn't moving the boss to fast and have been asked to move faster..on the second try i get dced from mumble and didnt know that i was kiting too fast :( :( .. at the end i was kiting like if i notice someone killing a fluid and that one is going near to the boss i was moving the boss away to give the dps time to kill it and get the buff and for sure i was trying to avoid red and purple pulls so i ended moving zig zag.

for the debuff that tank get from the boss few times our taunting was wrong but the good thing that paladin bubble can remove the debuff too bad for vrug he died when i did that mistake :twisted: :twisted:
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Re: [Throne of Thunder] - Primordius (8)

Post by Rublupine » Thu May 16, 2013 4:38 pm

Fagan wrote:Did I miss anything? ;)
Nailed it, thx.
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Re: [Throne of Thunder] - Primordius (8)

Post by Rublupine » Thu May 16, 2013 4:40 pm

Alaedon wrote:for the debuff that tank get from the boss few times our taunting was wrong but the good thing that paladin bubble can remove the debuff too bad for vrug he died when i did that mistake :twisted: :twisted:
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Re: [Throne of Thunder] - Primordius (8)

Post by Bravebeard » Thu May 16, 2013 8:37 pm

@rub

The criteria i used for asking for dispel was simply having more 5 min debuffs than 2 min buffs. Of course i never stepped in bad... it was Cengo who pushed me...

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Re: [Throne of Thunder] - Primordius (8)

Post by Rublupine » Fri May 17, 2013 8:34 am

Well, after last night, it was a lot clearer. For ranged those purple pools a a pain. I had a few clip me. Their ground affect is not the same as the graphic.

More 5mins than 2mins sounds like the way to do it.
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